A Rant.

Ok. Right the reason I'm doing this is because a really random discussion between me and my Mum just started, for reasons I know not of. This isn't a rant where I blow my head up to three times its size and attempt to convert everyone on the forums into a non-believer; I am just bringing my argument to the streets, and to provoke needed discussion. :]

I'll start by saying that my parents, and the large majority of my family chain are Christian, or to be more (embarrassingly) exact, Jehovah’s Witnesses. Let the Jew remarks begin. This meant as a kid, I didn’t get any Christmas presents or birthday presents, not even a slight integration of any traditional holidays/ celebrations. I watched at kids at school tell other kids about what presents they got, how they couldn't get to sleep at night because of the excitement, and how big the Christmas tree is in the corner of the living room. For the most part this is probably the main thing that's driven me away from anything Jesus, just generally being divided in some ways from the real world. I know not all religions are like this, but in the same respect, hear me out. Carrying on; I left the clan about three years ago now, to the horror of my Mum and Dad. The basis of this rant is about not just the religion I was born into, but just in religion and the common traits and values behind it.

The main arguments that my Mum tried to drill into me were along the lines of:

1."What do you have to live for after you die?'
2."Don't you want to know where you came from?"

1. Why should I have to worry about what happens to me after I die? For all I realistically know, there COULD be some form of life after death, but no one alive on this planet can prove that. So I'm gonna live my life now the way I want to NOW, and get the most enjoyment out of it as I can.

2. God. An all-powerful being that made everything we know and see around us because he can. Then us, the pawns, have to run around doing what he says in order to gain redemption and live onwards. This is the from near enough ALL religions are based on, they have some ultimately superior force at the top, and us, who have to do what it says, or follow it rules, in order to be accepted and move on. The idea of God is probably the oldest, widespread belief in the world. It's another way to explain where we come from. And actually referring to the argument my mum said, why should I really have to worry? Sure, it would be nice if we knew how we got here, but we don't. All that matter's to me is the fact that I'm here now. I don't need the self-satisfaction of knowing how God made me over six days or how I evolved from a single-celled organism; I don't see the huge importance of it. And plus, no one knows. I don't find the idea of accepting a concept, or theory as true. Yep, gravity is a theory, but 'god' isn't like that. There is no proof, just beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem whatsoever in respecting anyone's religious beliefs or values, just this is my opinion.

For me, religion is a way of showing modern and ancient brainwashing. Some people devote a proportion of their spare time every week, to going to a church/mosque/temple e.t.c. Any why? Because some guy stands up on a stage and says they should. "The proof is in the bible" he says. It's a book, full of ideas and rules, thousands of years old, created a few guys that wrote and pieced together to explain the meaning of life. Whether it's the Q'uran, the bible, the Tipitaka or another 'holy book', they all say or should do this or that, and this is what you have to do. This, as a concept, doesn't click with me. Any religious believer will use their holy book as a backup when challenged, because that's what the guy standing at the front of the 'holy building' has told them to believe. 'Everything in there is right, just because it is. Believe it or go to hell.' This is a highly controversial subject I'm playing with, but I believe, that this basis of religion is a load of bullshit.

I think the main majority of people that practice their religion as believers, do so because they need a reason to carry on going. They need a structural basis for the reason to live, and religion is it. If they do all this stuff that the book and the 'holy man' says, they'll reach the light at the end of the tunnel and fulfil their need to go on living, because if they don't believe it, they have nothing else to fall back on. It sounds stupid, but I think the idea of the matrix is just a good a 'belief' as Christianity, Islam, Judaism or any other religion.

Furthermore, from the depths of the past, to our time, in the global world, religion only seems to divide people, cause wars, and even terrorism recently. I personally have felt this directly when I was younger. The way the various speakers' used to talk about the religion is like it was a secret club. I look at some of the devoted families now and take pity on the kids, still going strong. They aren't allowed to mix with other kids out of the religion, aren't allowed to see horror films because they have 'pagan' influences, aren't allowed to listen to heavy-metal music. At the end of the day they're constrained as much as possible to stop them leaving the religion, or even thinking about it. Yes, this religion of 'Jehovah Witnesses' is that bad. It's at the extreme end of the scale as far as this is concerned, but in the same way, all religions do this to some extent. However although I may have portrayed my Parent's as probably being strict, they really aren't, I actually get on really well with them, well my Mum anyway.

I probably have a lot more to say, but that's all I can muster for now. Hope you enjoyed the read.

/Discuss.

I personally think Carlin said it best.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SzHlMs2rSIM

Mate, no need to drill into me how shit religion is. My dad's side of the family are all Irish Catholic, all the men cheated on their wives n were extreme alcoholics. Christianity is a fucking hypocrite of a religion, Islam is the 'take a hostage' situation, Jews are always the victim, and Hindus run all the cornershops. The only one that appeals to me in the slightest is Buddhism, and only because that is less of a religion and more of a way of life.

Only fucking morons are interested in physical needs. THis counters the first point, I coulnd't be arsed toread the second but seariously, fucking anything physical can't be anything that's offered out of our world.
BNIgsa.

You're drunk and quoting your philosophy lessons. Start by reading the post sober, then realise that not everything is the black-and-white outlook of Offsted Subject criteria.

Yer, I just felt the need to get this shit off my chest whilst I was in the mood.

Religion is evil.


Great rant

Good rant.


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I like George Carlin's idea, Joe Pesci is a bad ass.

Religions=awsome

But yer, you should tell your mum to go knock on some more doors, I hate their preachy we're the best attitude, like every religious person thinks that they know best and there so sure of God that they waste their life preaching and praying about it, they have no more idea than the rest of us.

That was a shit rant.

+warn

^_____________^

Oh c'mon...it was man.

I was hoping for it to be a little deeper and less opinionated to be honest...if this person had done research, he'd know that there is evidence to suggest both the existance and non-existance of god to a certain degree, it just depends on how it's interpreted. Charles Darwin believed in god you know.

Theres a saying that goes; "A deep study of science eventually forces a belief in god". I can see how this works in my own life, whether or not you do is your problem, just don't be ignorant.

That, and the idea that religion is a 'hypocrisy' really got on my nerves too...Hypocrisy isn't a condition of religion, it's a condition of humanity; and given that organized religion is pretty much a human-made concept, it is inevitably prone to it, just like everything and everyone else in life. I wonder if accusing others of hypocrisy is hypocritical in itself? There, that's a thought for you to ponder...lol

But whatever, warn away if you must. I understand you need a little power trip, I mod at a few boards too.

are you like that dude who talked with kirk cameron and said the proof of god can be found just by holding a banana? it's all scientific, it's what people want to believe, there's no actual proof, you know what I hate? when you ask someone to prove it and they say "oh ok, well he died for our sins, that's proof" fuck off with that bullshit.

btw, how can hypocrisy not be a condition of religion? expecially if religion is human-made like you say, doesn't that consider being a part of humanity, in which hypocrisy is only a condition in that, as you say again?

When I'm talking proof, I mean hard evidence based on science, not the mindless ramblings of a common 'christian' who has probably never even read the bible in it entirety.

And for christs sake (pun not intended) read what I wrote CAREFULLY. The basic point I was making is that people use the hypocisy of religion as an excuse not follow it, but in reality, hypocrisy is everywhere as it IS an inherit condition of man; and not JUST religion (as many people would have you believe).

Sure, it's nice to be able to blame everything on religion and single their coruption and contradictions out over others, but it just makes you look like a fuck head when you consider the general scheme of things.


why am I getting into this stupid crap for...

Religion is like bingo.

I never win when I play bingo.

There is no evidence, the bible does not count, and nor do peoples opinions. Science may be able to answer how the world was created, like the big bang theory, but even that doesn't prove or disporve God. There is nothing in this world that can prove or disprove God, so it's just up for people to make there own minds up, no point in listening to religon or science to try and find the answer.

it's cool man, you just need to form yourself better, I saw what I saw. I'm agnostic, nothing against christians, but I don't want to associate myself with a group of people who have half the stupidity of the world. it's sad to think that if I was talking to a "good" christian and mentioned that I'm unsure about the existance of god, they'd look down upon me and not talk to me anymore. what's funny is, christians are suppose to accept everyone. that's the hypocrisy they're talking about man, and if it's not directed towards that, then I'm pretty sure they have no idea what they're defending.

That is a fucking good effort considering how smashed I was.

As I said beforehand, this rant IS my opinion.

And that's what it is, a rant, not a collective study of every religion and/or theory to have ever existed.

And because you don't agree with some of the things I said, or have your own opinions, makes it a shit rant? Just because I didn't do any prior researh into what I was talking for your benefit doesn't mean shit to me. This was a rant, not something I could publish and be expecting a nobel prize for. And no, there is no physical evidence for god, just a book, and beliefs.

Note I said I DO respect beliefs, wiseboi.

I did say the evidence currently available was open to interpretation. Fuck, what is wrong with you people?

No, I'm serious now...what IS wrong with you people? Can't you fucking read something in full and just take it for whats its worth? Everyone around here seems to misquote me and twist what I'm trying to say to make themselves look right (or me look wrong, whichever you like). Just get fucked O.K.? Here, this is what I mean by eivdence open to interpretation.
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

And I'm not saying you have to be up to date with all the latest scientific knowledge to pull off a successful rant, but it does kinda help lol. I've often heard people say "there's no such thing as wrong opinion".

Well, you know what? Those people are wrong. And so are you, so just get over it.

Haha I remember the last time a christian tried to discuss religion here,twas that shibati guy I think.
That thread was classic,like 20 pages of abuse

You're a batty.

Threads surrounding ideas of theology and science always end up into massive arguments...I know, I've seen it happen counteless times on other boards...in retrospect, I probably shouldn't have gotten involved but whatever...

Oh and I'm not a Christian nor am I affilated with any religion for that matter...just thought I should point that out.

Haha. Ok man, I took it as though you wanted me to produce some sort of work that should be globally recognized. Note:


See how you could make people confused? There you want me to dig out hard evidence based on science? No thanks. It was a random rant about my beliefs I'd thought I'd share with the people here at the forums; not some kind of massive statement and anti-religion movement I'm trying to commence.

To be honest, I don't know why you've sparked up about it. And by saying that people can have wrong
opinion's just condradicts everything you, and I have just said. Of course people have opinions, doesn't mean they are wrong, nor right, and no one, can be the true judge of whether they are. Except God, right?

Lol.

Your right, subjects such as fragile and controversial as this ALWAYS spark shit up, in one way or another, but the 'rant' is just my opinion. If that offends you, so be it, but I have nothing else to say, or argue with you about.

Charles Darwin lived in a time so far removed from ours that to bring up his personal religious beliefs is irrelevant. His theories form the building blocks for almost every thesis discussing the non-existence of God; whether he was a Christian or not is irrelevant due to the time he lived in. You might as well say he was white; 99% of the scientists of the period were, but fuck it, let's just throw it in there because it bolsters a claim!



I've heard this phrase, and I don't agree at all. A deep study of science demonstrates Quantum, evolution and physics. Please explain to me exactly how this forces a belief in God. Don't just pepper your posts with phrases that sound good yet don't actually explain anything.



Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Got a little deep there, didn't you Princess? Now while you spout your self-involved pretension that could have been ripped from the mouths of any of pseudo-alternative music intellectual circa the early 1990s at many urban colleges and Sonic Youth shows, think about this: while a lot of people may use hypocrisy as a reason not to follow religion, you can't feasibly counter them by pointing out the flaws of the world around us. Your argument smacks of Catholicism and all its self-blaming theology; it's us the people who have confused God's message. He didn't mean for it to be this way! If we were all better people, we would know for sure if divinity exists! Sorry, won't cut it in any average-level debate anywhere in the world. Fact is, there is no deductive argument for the existence of God. Every time science eliminates a Biblical teaching, it suddenly becomes apparent to every man and his dog that whichever grand scribe penned that particular section didn't mean for it to be interpreted literally you sillies. Bah.



Yet more vague, pointless banter from you. 'In the general scheme of things'? Please elaborate.
And the only one looking like a fuckhead is you, by continuing the great Biblical tradition of murky declarations that could be taken any of 20 ways.



Can't you assert your point without announcing that everyone else is either ignorant or a fuckhead? I sense some kind if inferiority complex here that forces you to insult everyone who doesn't agree with you.



Cheers for that, it's going under my 'comedy' bookmark section.

Amongst other things, the author cites as one of his 'arguments' what can be simplified as the "things get old, without a 'divine mechanic' the Universe would simply fall apart like a 40 year old automobile". This is by far one of the most idiotic and illogical theories I have ever heard.

He cites Sagen, a man who has been widely criticised by many, including professors from NASA, as bluntly ignoring the law of gravity and other such astronomical certainties in his papers.

He attempts to 'prove' the existence of God through demonstrating the Sun and stars use up hydrogen, thereby implying the Universe had a beginning. Congratulations to the author, he has just bypassed the theory of Infinite Regress. Now that he is on an equal footing with Arab theologians hundreds of years ago, perhaps he can possibly assert proof that this beginning was instigated by a divine power?



And here we are, Ladies and Gents, the stubborn determination that forms the backbone of any die-hard religious scholar! The staunch rejection of any opposition as either biased, mistaken or downright deluded. For someone who so readily accuses others of ignorance, you really fling the insults around, don't you?




Now it's been fun, but you need to stop the aggression. Maybe if you had come in and conveyed your point with a level head and respect for others instead of simply stating 'this is shit', you wouldn't have been met with the reception you got. The only reason myself and others have had to fuck about with you is because you take yourself far too seriously.

I'll reply to your post when I have the energy to do so, at the moment I really can't be bothered though, that shit is just too fucking long lol